An author so nice, we asked her to the jungle twice!
If you missed best-selling author, Robyn Carr, on her Wednesday visit where she discussed the birth of the amazing town of Virgin River, you can catch up here. We’re thrilled to have her again, talking about writing…and one of my favorite writing topics, too!
For those of you near Washington DC, especially those thinking about attending the Literacy Signing on Wednesday night, please make sure to stop by and tell Robyn hello. I’m only going to be there as a customer and I plan on making a beeline to Ms. Carr’s table so I can meet her in person. I am prepared to wait in a very long line!
Robyn & her best friend, Jessie
I hate to outline. I seem unable to sit and list story events without all the fluff that props them up. Nothing puts me to sleep faster than to think think think before I write write write. But, when I begin on page one with about as much of an idea as you’ll see on back cover copy, the plot develops as I go. Story evolves. Characters emerge. I gradually see where motivation is needed. I can’t know everything about a character in the first chapter, but by the time I’m done, my reader better know a lot about the character in the first few pages. And what’s more, I start to feel more like I’m reading a good book than writing one.
This probably only works for me because I also love revision. No way can I think of everything that’s going to happen in a story in a day or a week, jot notes and then write it up. But what I can do, what I’m most comfortable and confident doing, is gradually disclose what’s happening while I’m writing. I can be working on chapter twelve when a notion comes – a change or new idea that should take place in chapter two, an alteration that could be pivotal. It’s nothing to me to go back to the place it should be and put it there. I might even have to make course correction in all the chapters ahead to accommodate that idea or shift. In fact, I go back and forth so many times that by the time I’m finally finished with a manuscript, I can almost tell you the exact page on which every scene begins. I know in which chapter some piece of dialogue occurs. I know the page that begins the sex scene. I’ve been over it and over it and over it.
The popular and probably most practical method seems to be – set up an outline, then write the first draft from beginning to end, then revise. When I try to do that, little changes and God knows how many post-it notes just eat at me, suffocate me. I’m likely to go back to page one fifty times. This obviously begs the questions: A) don’t you get bored? And B) how do you keep track of details if they’re not set up in advance.
First of all, the second I’m bored, I’m in deep doo-doo, and truthfully, I end up in deep doo-doo a lot. My book had better be keeping me up at night if I expect it to keep a reader awake. A necessary part of revision is the ability to ruthlessly ax whole portions of a story that move slowly or fail to deliver some essential ingredient in plot, character, setting or motivation. I’ll rewrite whole scenes of dialogue and redo them a number of times.
And second, given I write books in a continuing series, it’s necessary for me to have a bible – a notebook crammed with details that I jot down the first time they come up – eye color, height and weight, distance to a certain town, time lines, et cetera. And I can still flub it up, but I make an effort to keep track. And since I go over the manuscript so many times, I’m more likely to catch them.
Interestingly, it doesn’t seem to take me any longer to write a book this way.
Having said all that about the way I do it, perhaps justifying it, the bottom line reason is that this is the way it’s fun for me. And maybe I’m just plain crazy, but I think it shows in the work when you’re enjoying yourself. Self-indulgent as it sounds, if I didn’t enjoy going to work every day, I’d probably look for another job.
By all reports, Julie Leto was a sweet child once, somewhat shy, preferring to play quietly in her room making up stories. However, being raised with three brothers in a loud, primarily Italian household did have its influences and Julie discovered her inner tough girl. That’s probably why most of her heroines kick serious butt. Writing sassy heroines has worked out, as she’s sold nearly thirty books to three publishers featuring strong, confident women. Julie lives in Florida with her husband, daughter, spoiled dachshund, enormous guinea pig and a wide range of relatives all within driving distance.
3 Seductions and a Wedding
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Wild For Him
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Good morning jungle buddies and my beloved plotmonkeys…
Robyn, it is so great to see you here again. I don’t have time to stay right now, just wanted to say hello…I will check again later on today…have fun swinging with my pals…catch you later…
Peace and love,
Paula R.
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Please don’t look for another job !!!
Remember you have more Virgin Valley book to write
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pffff meant Virgin River !!!
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Robyn thanks so much for coming back to the jungle! I am so sorry I missed you Wednesday, I was gone all day. So I’m doubly thrilled you came back!
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WELCOME BACK ROBYN!
Karen
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I’ve been an RC fan since Braeswood Tapestry days, and it’s great to know I can expect yet more wonderful books. Here’s hoping the writing stays fun forever.
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Thank you for coming back to the Jungle, Robyn and for giving us a hint about how you write. It’s always fun to see how different authors write their books. I picked up Virgin River at B&N the other day. Can’t wait to read it.
Hope everyone has a great time at National next week. I look forward to hearing all about it.
Hey, Plotmonkeys, are you guys going to have an on-scene reporter again this year?
Have a wonderful day everyone,
Cher
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Oh, I have a question for you Robyn and for all the Plotmonkeys…
I read this article recently on line about an author who hit the extended NYT list. She intimated in her article that it was better for an author to say “no” to an advance because it can be a year or longer before you ever get to experience the joy of receiving a royalty check in the mail. And this is because of the “joint accounting” in the contract–the author must sell enough books to equal the advance before they get royalties.
So what do you think? Should an author say no to an advance? Especially to say HQ series for instance where you don’t need an agent to sell to them.
Just curious what multi-published authors have to say.
Cher
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Hi Robyn!
The fact that you enjoy your job is clearly evident in your books. The Virgin River series is one of my all-time favorites in any genre. Looking forward to finally meeting you in person next week at RWA!
Hugs,
~PJ
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Your way fascinates me – I have always thought of myself as a ‘creative’ person … everyone’s always called me a ‘creative’ person but I am an outliner and somehow, that method just doesn’t sound as creative as yours. You hit the nail on the head though – you need to have fun and honestly … making outlines, to me, is fun !!! Thanks for coming back
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That’s interesting, because I can’t outline when I’m writing either.I wish I could, but ideas never seem to come to me when I have a notebook out in front of me.But put a laptop there and I can hack out the first two chapters no problym.At least its not just me
Thanks for taking the time to blog here!
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Cher, the answer to the question is actually to REFUSE basket accounting or joint accounting, which is basically where a second book’s royalties are not paid out until the first book has earned out. Oftentimes, with a big advance, the book will never “earn out.” But the answer is NEVER to eschew being paid for your hard work!
I’ve said NO to joint accounting twice, so I know it can be done. Publishers want it because it works to their advantage, but IMO, it’s an author’s duty to give a resounding NO. The right to be paid for each of our works irregardless of the performance of other books is not one author’s should take lightly.
For instance, if an author takes joint accounting and then their first book comes out. It’s a December release (no choice to the author) which is historically a harder month for romance sales. The cover sucks–again, not the author’s decision. The print run is low because Walmart decided not to take an order (again, not the author’s doing.) The publisher prints only 50K of the book, but the author was paid $20,000. That means the author would have to sell 35,714 copies of the book to “earn out.” (at 8% royalty of a $6.99 cover price.) That means the author would have to sell more than 60% of the books shipped…a very hard number to reach for a book with a 50K print run. Nearly impossible. 50% sell through is considered decent on a first time author.
So, then she can’t earn out. No biggie. Lots of authors don’t earn out.
BUT…let’s say her second book comes out. Comes out in the June, great cover, Oprah picks it for her bookclub. Her print run goes up to 500K copies and she sells 300K, not unheard of for an Oprah book. BUT she doesn’t see a dime in royalties because the FIRST book didn’t earn out.
See? Not good.
No joint accounting.
I do not understand why an author would forgo their advance, which is essentially, the money they are fronted for giving their publisher to license (copyright) to sell their work. That’s like working for free. However if joint accounting is a deal breaker, then they could take a smaller advance…but to forego it entirely is a very bad precedent.
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OMG — I am totally ashamed and embarrassed — I forgot I was to be here today! I was in Virgin River and lost my mind totally! I so apologize! Onward — first Ban’s comment about enjoying outlining — Babe — there are people out there, I hear, who have fun running 100 mile marathons. Go figure.
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next — I agree with Julie — joint accounting is a mistake and if an author can avoid it, she should. I’ve had it a couple of times, fotunately on paperback reprints so at least my origin hardcovers eventually paid.
There is a lot of discussion about the importance of the advance and what’s the “smart” way to go. Many authors believe that the larger the advance, the more motivation the publisher has to promote the book to earn back their investment. In my experience, that hasn’t always happened.
Personally, I’m interested in getting exactly the right advance, just as I want to pay exactly the right taxes — at the end of the year I owe nothing, I’m refunded nothing. I don’t mind waiting a royalty statement or two for the advance to earn out and royalties to be paid, but I really don’t like being in arrears. Publishers who give authors big bucks that never earn out recover their sanity fairly quickly and either really chop that advance down at the next contract or say “bah-bye.” (excepting enormously huge authors, of course — but we’re talking millions, not thousands in those cases)
Bottom line for me is — I want a little job security. I want a contract that gives me a fair wage and assures me a publishing commitment so that I have work. Am I the rare author who always worries about keeping my job? I doubt it. I don’t want them to lose money on me; I do everything I can to help sell books. If we’re not all in the same canoe, it’s only going to be harder.
xoxoxo
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And PJ — can’t wait to meet you in person, too!! xoxox
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Robyn, we’re very glad you’re here now. Hey, it’s only 8pm west coast time…it’s early yet! It’s Saturday!
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Oh, and I totally agree…job security is where it’s at. ;-)
In the print publishing model, the advance is part of a publisher’s investment in a book…though it in no way guarantees SUPPORT for a book after all is said and done. HOWEVER, I’m sure a book that was paid a $50K advance has more of a shot at getting support than one that was paid $5K in the same house. It just stands to reason. Return on Investment is a key part of any business model, from what I understand of the business world.
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That seems to be the case, Julie — advance size equals publisher enthusiasm. The sad truth is that the authors with the small advance must work hard to sell books because even at that level, the sell-through or velocity matters so much; if that author can sell 75% of the books printed and shipped, the chances are so much greater that the next contract will be better and the print-run higher. And it takes time, energy and $$ to sell books! I wish I had great advice about exactly how to do that.
So here’s my advice — give a lot of attention to that which you can control — make a good book if you can. Is that a cop out? a wimp out? Too simple?
xoxoxo
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Sorry, I missed you yesterday Robyn…I read the blog today and I really enjoyed it. Your process is one that I would probably use. I am not an outliner…never liked it since I can remember. When I write, I usually take the germ of an idea and once I start typing, words just fly. I like to hand write a lot of things as well, so I usually write some things down before sitting in front of the computer…it is like I need to jumpstart my creative muse before I can get going…
The dialogue between you and Jules was also very informative. I learned a couple of things. Thank you so much for coming back to swing with us here in the jungle. Hopefully, you get the chance to visit again. Can’t wait to see you in DC. Have a safe trip.
Peace and love,
Paula R>
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Thank you, Julie and Robyn for clarifying advance vs. no advance and how it applies to “joint accounting or basket accounting”. I have heard that joint accounting is not a good thing in a contract but I understand that with Harlequin series books their contract is pretty much boiler plate and you don’t have wiggle room there. I don’t know if they have basket accounting in their contracts because I’ve never seen one. At any rate navigating the publishing world sounds hard either way. I suppose that’s where a good agent comes in handy.
Suppose a new author sells a book to one of Harlequin series–say advance of 2K?-I’m guessing here because I have no idea what their advance is for a first time author–do these new authors ever see a royalty check for that first book or subsequent books? Again I have no idea about the sell through on HQ series although isn’t there a built in readership with the series books?
Cher
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Hi, Cher. First, no, Harlequin does not do joint accounting for series books. For the most part, HQ is very fair to their authors. It’s one of the reasons why I still write for them.
A first time advance for a HQ series book is more around $4K and you bet you’re bippy that you’ll earn royalties…on most series lines, anyway. New lines are always a shot in the dark, but the established line? Definitely. Check out Brenda Hiatt’s SHOW ME THE MONEY on her website to see what series books earn. Her numbers are pretty accurate.
The thing about HQ royalties is that they go on seemingly forever because HQ is so awesome at selling foreign rights. Right now, I’m actually earning more in royalties on my older books than I am on my newer ones…mainly because I now get a much higher advance. But I’ve only had a few books at HQ not “earn out” and those were books outside of series. Anthologies. A continuity (though with the book’s recent e-re-release, I may make up the final few dollars and earn out…something I’m excited about.) The single title I did for Signature…they did not print enough copies to even make an earn-out viable. Their choice, not mine. Even if a book doesn’t earn out, though, doesn’t mean the publisher lost money, BTW. I’m not math savvy enough to explain it, but it’s true in some cases, esp. with a lower advance.
BTW, most new authors see royalties from their first book on their first or more likely, second statement. Sometimes the third. Depends on the line and the release month, returns against reserves, etc. It’s very complicated!
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Oh, and yes…the definite advantage of series over single title is the built-in readership. That’s why category romance is such a great place to break in to the industry, IMO.
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Hey, thanks for much, Julie for your insider knowledge and for clarifying all of this for me. I appreciate it. For someone like me who knows little about print publishing this really helps.
Cher
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Julie,you mentioned the release month playing a role in royalties. What month’s are good and what month’s are bad for a book to be released? You mentioned December was a bad month, any others? And if December is a bad month for books to be released why do publishers release holiday themed books at that time?
Cher, sorry to bug you with all these questions…
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I meant “months”…haven’t had enough tea yet…
Cher
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I am glad I stopped by here today. I thought I had missed all the excitment of talking shop. Everything I have read here today made up my mind that I will be focusing on HQ. Being a “first timer” I feel that may be my best bet.
I do have a couple of questions though. I have searched HQ for information on the series lines but I only come across the new series recently established. Where do I find information on the older, more established lines? And since I live abroad in Mexico does anyone have any suggestions on where I can go online to find a writers group?
I love reading how other authors go about accomplishing their work. I loved your blog post Robyn and love your books even more. I have read all your VR books and can’t wait for the next one!!! Thanks for loving your job!!!!
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Hi Talina
On HQ’s homepage you will see Shop, Read, Talk Write toward the bottom of the page. Under Write you will see where you can click on Writer’s Guidelines. When you get to writer’s guidelines you will see the names of the different lines. They are all listed there. Just click on one and you can read their guidelines. Also they have Podcasts with each of the lines so you can listen to the editors talk about what they are looking for with each line. Lots of great info there.
If you aren’t a member of RWA and you write romance you should check out Romance Writers of America. http://www.rwanational.org There are also some good on-line only chapters like Outreach International Romance Writers that you might want to take a look at.
Hope this helps,
Cher
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Thanks Cher, I am heading over to HQ right now to check everything out. I am going to check out Outreach International after that. Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction. Have a great Sunday!
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You’re welcome, hope it helps
Cher
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Cher, thanks for sending Talina in the right direction!
As for months…nothing is written in stone. December books have done well. But it’s a common sense thing…in December, women are shopping for everyone else and may not make as many purchases for themselves. They will buy established authors, but may not take a chance on someone new.
This is really a single title phenomenon more than category. In series, there really isn’t that much rhyme or reason. Summer books do well because more people read in the summer. Christmas themed books (which are actually released in October or November) generally sell very well.
And again, there isn’t much to worry about for an author…we don’t control release dates. Like Robyn said so sagely…control what you can and while it’s good to understand how things work, if you can’t influence it, don’t worry about it!
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Great advice, Julie. Thanks
The only thing we really can control is the quality of the book. We just need to write the best book that we can and hope someone buys it.
Cher
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And Cher – I know you already know this, but I feel compelled to say it — the book you write can be totally wonderful and run into brick walls, so try not to let that discourage you =- it’s the nature of the beast. If you’re honest with yourself (and objective!) you’ll know! I’ve had books that didn’t sell that I realized, at least eventually, weren’t that good. I put them away! And I’ve had books that I really really believed in that had trouble selling. One of my all time favorites in a 30 year career was The House On Olive Street — I KNEW that book was good; I knew it in my bone marrow. But it took three years to sell! When it did, it began my career with Mira and HQ — something for which I am incredibly grateful! Dianne Moggy was just setting up Mira and bought it; you can ask her today, ten years later, and she’ll still say she loves that book. It not only did well — I bet we’ll see it back in print before long.
I completely wrote the first 4 books in the Virgin River series before I could get anyone to look at the first 100 pages! it was a series, for one thing — right at a time publishing was really suffering, and that kind of commitment was hard for someone to get. But I KNEW it was a good series with potential. I also KNEW I wanted HQ to be the publisher if at all possible, because they know how to publish ongoing romantic series very successfully. And I hung in there, using the time I waited for them to have time to look at it, to make a decision, to do everything I could to revise and make it better than it was.
Even with the best help available, at the end of the day the quality of the book is on you — do your best.
And thanks everyone — for having me and being so wonderful to me!
xoxoxoxo
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Thank you for the reminder, Robyn about books hitting brick walls. I know it happens and it’s disappointing but it is part of the publishing biz. It’s as those times we have to remember why we started writing in the first place, otherwise, we’d all probably hang up our keyboards certain that we’ll never sell a book to anyone!
Thank you for your candor in telling us about your Virgin River journey. A friend of mine, Regina Brewer, told me something a long time ago that I’ve never forgotten…she said “Every writer has a different journey.” And boy is she right!
Take care and thank you so much for being here this weekend. The Jungle was truly blessed by your presence.
Cher