Last month, Stacia Kane, (aka December Quinn) came to Plotmonkeys to talk about how new authors should evaluate publishers. Because this is no easy task, she split her workshop into two parts. Last month was about print publishers, but this month, she’s talking about epublishers. As a successfully published ebook author, she knows what she’s talking about, people…so listen up!
And thank you, Stacia, for coming back to enlighten us yet again!
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Last month we looked at print publisher websites and learned a bit (hopefully) about what to look for. But epubs are different, so we’re going to look at an epub site today and see what we see.
For the legitimate epub site, I’ve chosen Liquid Silver Books. I chose them because I’m not published with them (so this doesn’t look like a plug—but for the record, my epublisher is Ellora’s Cave and am very happy there) and because I know for a fact they’re legit and have a stellar reputation. I have a lot of friends published at LSB.
Epubs almost always have a submissions link on the first page. (See it? Bottom left.) However, notice it’s still not a huge link right under their logo & slogan. It looks professional; they’re not trying to grab anything or make you submit before you’ve looked at the site. What matters most still matters here: this site is clearly aimed at selling books to the public. See, the “Cart” is right at the top, as is the list of genres.
What else do we notice?
*No typos
*Professional-looking covers (I’ll get to those in a minute)
*List of genres is clear; there’s no twee little categories or euphemisms to make it hard to find what you want (with the exception of “molten silver”, but I think that’s easy to figure out, don’t you?)
*There’s a link for their newsletter and Yahoo Group; this is also a good indication that they try to grow customer loyalty (which is extremely important; readers tend to stick with publishers they know.) They have a forum, which I love, and a blog.
*I particularly like that their series have separate websites. The Terran Realm and their Zodiac series both have them, which is cool.
So everything looks nice. This is more important than you’d think when it comes to epublishing. LSB has either paid someone to do their site or somebody really knows how to work the html here.
Check out the About page. Lookie there! There’s the names of the publisher, acquisitions editor, and editorial director, as well as the art director. (You also see they’re listed with Fictionwise. This is a good sign but not as important as some people think, IMO, because some perfectly legit companies choose not to distro through Fictionwise, and some authors prefer that because of the difference in royalty amounts.) There are “Contact Us” and “Customer Service” links too, and while I prefer to have the name and email link on a page, rather than just being sent straight to email, again that’s personal taste and doesn’t mean anything as far as legitimacy or professionalism goes.
Let’s look at the covers. LSB has perhaps an unfair advantage here, because their cover artist April Martinez is famous for her design skill. But you know what? That’s what you want. Covers are a big part of what makes a book look enticing and appealing. It’s one of the things that makes a difference between a site you want to shop at and a site you want to laugh at.
The occasional Poser cover (those artifical people with the bendy bodies and glassy eyes) isn’t a crime; some authors request those covers and some people like them. (And for people who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like, as Miss Brodie would say.) But look at the covers in general; do they look professional, or do they look like bad fonts stuck of top of clipart photos? Are the images oddly stretched? Are the colors shreiky and painful to look at? Really, is that the kind of cover you want for your book?
In general, I would say at least 50% of the covers should appeal to you. (Unless you have rather unique tastes.) And that’s a minimum.
Let’s pick a book to use as an example of what a listing should have. Once again, I’ve chosen (at random) an author I don’t know and am not to my knowledge associated with at any of my publishers (I’m pretty sure I would remember “D.J. Manly.”)
Here’s D.J. Manly’s. (Personally, I’d prefer it if you could click the book’s cover for more info, rather than a link below it, but that’s personal taste.)
Okay. Title, author and ISBN right at the top. Check. Blurb makes sense, is spelled properly, and is grammatically correct. Check. There’s a nice big buy link at the bottom, and the price is clearly listed (again, I prefer the price be a little bigger or in bold, but it’s certainly not hidden. It’s a reasonable price, too.) The genre is plainly shown. Even if the cover hadn’t given us a clue, we are told this is a ménage book, with m/m interaction as well as m/f/m, and some light bondage too. There’s also a link to buy more of that author’s titles, which is pretty standard and always nice to have.
We’ll look at the excerpt now. I’ll be honest and say the voice here isn’t really to my taste; but again, there’s no spelling or grammatical errors. The excerpt is long enough for us to get a feel for the book, to see if it’s something we want to buy or not.
All of which lends legitimacy, but we’re not done. You can’t possibly know if your book will fit in at a publisher after looking at one listing and excerpt. This is a process that takes time. It’s just as important as the actual writing, so please don’t skimp. Look at a lot of listings. Read a lot of excerpts. Look at genres other than yours. What kinds of stories do they sell? What kinds of heat listings do you see? Do these look like books you would read? Do they look like the kinds of books you write and the heat level at which you’re comfortable?
If not, move on. Why would you send your book to a publisher whose editing looks sloppy, whose books look dull, whose tastes don’t appear to mesh with yours? Readers tend to stick with specific epublishers. They might have several they buy from, and they might be willing to branch out, but they usually have a favorite, and that’s where they’ll buy new authors too—because they trust that publisher. So look carefully. Spend some time, I can’t emphasize this enough.
As you flit about reading excerpts and ogling cover art, pay attention to how easy the site is to navigate. Is it constantly making you pop up and exit new windows? Are any of the links broken? Are all of the pages finished—it’s easy to have a nice-looking Home page, but that care should extend throughout the site. An occasional “Under Construction” notice is okay, but beware too many of those.
Also look at their list of authors. Have you heard of any of them? Do you know any of them? Have you seen good reviews for them? Make note of some of their names and websites, you’ll need them later.
Now buy a book. After looking at all of those excerpts, you should have found at least one book you’d like to own (in fact, you should have found quite a few.) Buy it. You need to make sure the buying process is smooth and easy to understand. It’s better not to have to get codes and stuff in your email hours later; ebooks should be pretty much immediate (at least that’s what I think). You want to be able to choose a book, click a link, fill in some info, and get your book within minutes. Put a bunch of books in your cart and see how long the cart holds them, and if it’s easy to remove some later and add more. You should be able to keep stuff in your cart for a while; I know one non-ebook site I shopped on once deleted my cart after like twenty minutes, which annoyed me so much I gave up. You don’t want readers to give up. You don’t want them to get annoyed by having to hit extra buttons and wander through different windows. They will go somewhere else. And if they’re going elsewhere, you might as well have left your book in your hard drive, right?
Now it’s time to start digging. A site can look great, but there may be darkness lurking beneath it. Darkness that could have serious implications for your career.
Your first stop should be Piers Anthony’s Internet Publishing Index. (Note his disclaimer there, below the photo.) Mr. Anthony collects scuttlebut from hundreds of anonymous authors, editors, and publishers, and updates his list quarterly. I’ve had a slight crisis of faith regarding Piers after he posted some inaccurate info about Ellora’s Cave’s submissions policies, but I still believe he’s a valuable resource. Just remember all info is given to him anonymously, and you don’t know who the informants are.
I’m not going to direct you to a specific letter of the alphabet or publisher here; but do take some time and look around. Remember these reports are often subjective, but pay attention.
The following is a list of what I consider to be red flags on the Index:
*Reports of unpaid royalties (this is a HUGE one.)
*Reports of trouble getting royalty statements
*Reports of low sales
*Reports of poor communication, or keeping authors in the dark about certain aspects of their business (like print programs or publicity)
*Reports of requiring payment from authors
*Reports of management shake-ups, authors leaving, etc.
Now, again, I stress the Index is subjective. You’re looking for a preponderance of evidence. For example, one listing mentions, several updates ago, royalties being paid late. There are no further reports of that, so it’s up to you; what else do you know about this publisher? If everything else, from our other sources, looks good, they’re probably fine.
On the other hand, this subjectivity also matters when reports are good. It’s a good sign when everything comes up rosy on the Index, but it doesn’t mean your research is done.
The following I do not particularly consider red flags:
*A single report of “arrogance”
*A single report of “bad editing”
*A single report of “poor communication”
All of those things are particularly subjective. What’s arrogant to one author may be fine to another. Now, if you see this report more than once, you want to be careful. Ask around.
Now we go to Preditors & Editors. Some companies don’t have a listing on P&E, and that’s fine. Not being listed is not a black mark. Some publishers are simply listed, and that’s okay; it means P&E hasn’t received any negative reports. But if P&E lists them as “Not Recommended”, you don’t want to submit to them–it means they charge fees, or try to bilk writers, or any number of little nasties. P&E requires documentation for this—if they say there’s a problem, trust them.
So you’ve checked out at Piers and P&E, and all is well? Great.
Your next stop is the Absolute Write Water Cooler. Take some time here, too. Go first to the Bewares and Background Checks section. Look around. Search for the publisher you’re looking for (the search key is in the “Threads in Forum” light blue line, it says “Search this forum”, on the right hand side.) Do the search. See what comes up.
Don’t just check “B&BC”, though. Head for the “Writing Romance” and “Writing Erotica” threads (or, obviously, whatever genre you write.) Look through those threads; do a search there. Look for authors who work with those publishers and PM them (you have to register to send a private message, but it’s free and well worth doing.) Start your own thread and ask people to PM you about their experiences, and tell them it’s because you’re considering subbing to them. You’ll be surprised how willing people there are to help. (Note: if you see a post where someone asked about a publisher and got no replies, PM that person. Don’t assume they got no replies because nobody answered; it could be that nobody wanted to comment publicly.)
Okay, so Piers, P&E, and AW all look good? Check the EREC site and have a look there. What sales numbers Emily Veinglory (a stellar woman) has been able to collect, she’s listed there. (And authors, please submit your numbers! It’s totally anonymous!) This is IMPORTANT. A publisher could be as fair and good as Snow White; it still doesn’t mean you want to submit to them, especially if they’re brand new or their sales are very low. You might, you might not.
Okay, remember when you collected those names and web addresses for authors at your chosen publisher? Start looking them up. You’ll only very rarely (if at all) find an author willing to say on their site or blog that they’re unhappy with a publisher, but what they don’t say matters too. Do they mention their house and/or editor often, in a positive way? (And does it sound sincere?) If so, that’s a good sign. Do they display their covers proudly, do they talk about their books, do they have more coming out with that publisher? That’s also a good sign.
But if they don’t mention their publisher, if they don’t say complimentary things, if they put out on book with that publisher nine months ago and have since published three somewhere else? Kind of a red flag. It could be nothing, but it could be something.
So email them. Tell them why. Ask if they’re willing to share any info with you. Would they recommend Publisher X? Pay attention to their response. Look for what isn’t said as much as what is.
Last, do a both Google and Technorati searches. When you google the publisher, their site should come up first. See if you can find anything else about them. For example, I know Googling one publisher turns up, in one of the first search engine pages, a post by a review site commenting on how they’d had repeated problems trying to download books from that site. One publisher that is now out of business and had the owner apparently take off with some money turned up all kinds of things about the publisher, before anyone else had the info. (Keep in mind, Piers is only updated every three months.) Technorati could turn up more of the same.
So now, what if you’ve searched for this publisher at all of these places, and found either nothing negative or positive things, and it all looks rosy? Should you go ahead and submit?
Well…probably. But there’s one thing I didn’t tell you to look for, and it’s one of the most important. Have you heard of this publisher? And I don’t mean from a Call for Submissions somewhere, or from several authors on a message board posting “OMG I sold to Eternal Loveliness Press!!!” Have you heard of them? Have you seen reviews for them? Have they been around for a while? It sounds harsh, but the simple fact is most small businesses, epublishers included, fail. Most brand-new epublishers do not sell large numbers—I know of a few where authors were told their book was a top seller and it turned out they’d sold copies in the single digits. Think hard before you let your book be a guinea pig for a new house. Stick to places you know, places you’ve heard of, places with a backlist. Don’t gamble with your career.
Good luck!
By all reports, Julie Leto was a sweet child once, somewhat shy, preferring to play quietly in her room making up stories. However, being raised with three brothers in a loud, primarily Italian household did have its influences and Julie discovered her inner tough girl. That’s probably why most of her heroines kick serious butt. Writing sassy heroines has worked out, as she’s sold nearly thirty books to three publishers featuring strong, confident women. Julie lives in Florida with her husband, daughter, spoiled dachshund, enormous guinea pig and a wide range of relatives all within driving distance.
ANOTHER WILD WEDDING NIGHT
Hard to Hold
Love Me If You Dare
Wild For Him
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Good Morning Ms. Kane, Plotmonkeys and Jungle Bunnies,
Thank you for the great information about e-publishers. I am e-published only at the moment primarily through Loose Id but I’ve also been published by New Concepts and Wings e-Press.
I had never heard of Piers Anthony’s site but I checked it out. Thanks for posting. His comments about New Concepts and Wings e-Press are on target as are Loose Id. (Lucid)
I would like to add that some people are under the impression that it’s easy to get e-published but it isn’t. If you are submitting to a reputable e-publisher looking for quality books the process is the same. I think you mentioned something about royalties but I can’t remember exactly. Even though they are 35 to 40% depending on the publisher, the author makes very little money. UNLESS, they have multiple e-books out–15 to 20 and they are EROTICA. Erotica out sells everything else bar none particularly if it’s gay or lesbian romance, romances featuring sex with aliens, BDSM et cetera. And the majority of the buyers of gay romances are women.
Unfortunately for my book sales, I don’t write erotica. So the amount of money I’ve made on my e-books is pathetic. If it were completely up to me to pay our living expenses we would be in the soup line. And I’m not kidding!
But I knew that going in. The upside is that it allowed me to get my name out there, it brought a lot of traffic to my web site which topped out at 34,000 last April. BUT, all the hits on my site, all the promo, all the chats et cetera did zip for sales. It made no difference whatsoever. What does make a difference in e-book sales is EROTICA. So if you write erotica you can make some money–not a huge amount but more than pocket change.
Ellora’s Cave formed Cerridwen Press a while back which sells mainstream e-books. I have no idea how the sales are over there but I bet it doesn’t even scratch the surface of the sales at Ellora’s Cave because Ellora’s Cave sells EROTICA or Romantica as they call it.
For that reason I am targeting print publishers only in the future. However, I just submitted something to Aspen Mountain Press because the owner is a good friend and she asked me to. But after that, I’m done because the money is so little it feels like I’m writing for free. And writing is too freaking hard to make so little.
E-publishers also don’t offer an advance.
E-books into print: A few e-publishers such as Ellora’s Cave and Loose Id are putting some of their books into print, however they are doing this for their top sellers only. So, you need a track record of consistent, high sales for this to happen.
Now, my comments about Fiction Wise-My book with New Concepts reached #25 and one of my books with Loose Id reached #50 on their list. At first I was excited but I have yet to see any royalties whatsoever from Fiction Wise on either of these books. So my excitement has waned considerably. My books are still on their site but I have no idea what the sales have been or what they are selling at present or where the royalties for the books that have sold are.
So here’s a big fat raspberry for Fiction Wise!!!!
On to Poser–I HATE POSER!! The covers look like demented bride of Chucky dolls. nuff said.
Have a great day all. I’m off to my chapter meeting,
Cher
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Cher, I have a friend wrote for Cerridwen and she was floored by the lack of income. She reads this blog, so maybe she’ll pipe up.
It’s sad, but right now, it seems you are completely on target with the vast majority of ebook money makers being erotica.
There are exceptions, I know. But not many.
For the record, two of my single titles were released as ebooks. Neither one broke $100 in royalty income. I just think that people need to realize that the ebook industry simply has taken off yet in any other area but erotica. It probably will–but it hasn’t yet.
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The links you gave for checking out agents and publishers make for a fail-safe investigation. The Absolute Water Cooler, with forums on every facet of publishing, provide a real wealth of info. Your point about covers being important on an E-pubs site is vital. Some sites have such ‘Mickey Mouse’ covers, it’s hard to believe they’re in business. A badly done cover can make a book so unattractive, the reader won’t even click for an excerpt of the writing. Thanks for the tips. Great post.
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Well, Cher, I absolutely agree that erotica is where the money is for ebooks, yes, but I disagree on the size of backlist needed. I’ve been extremely pleased with my Ellora’s Cave royalties so far, and I only have 4 novels out with them. No, it’s not enough to support a family, but it’s more than enough to pay the rent.
But as you pointed out, quite correctly, that’s because EC is large and well-known and has a large fan base. Someone at a smaller publisher or a startup publisher is going to have a very different experience. (And as far as Cerridwen, I have a medieval romance out with them on Feb. 21st. We’ll see how it does.
I know it won’t sell anything like my EC stuff, but I’m pleased it will be available.)
Also, EC’s print policy isn’t Top Sellers Only. They’re currently working on getting all of their novel-length titles into print.
If you aren’t getting your Fictionwise royalties you need to speak to your publisher, as it’s their responsibility to get those to you. I agree about Fictionwise and am pleased for that reason that EC doesn’t list with them.
You’re right, I should have listed a standard royalty rate, which is usually 30-40% of cover price. Thanks!
My theory, Julie (and it’s not an original one at all, lol) is that ebook erotica does so well because we don’t necessarily want to buy those books in stores. I know there are a lot of people online who’ve embraced the ebook, but they aren’t really making inroads yet. I hope they do, but I like paper books too, so…:)
Hey, Bernard! Yep, some of those covers can really hurt a book’s sales. It amazes me how many publishers don’t take the time to think about that.
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Hi Stacia,
I stand corrected about backlist sales. I think sales for any author writing for EC are good because they are Erotica. Actually Morgan Hawke related the information about backlist and sales.
That’s great that EC is trying to put all their books into print. I wonder if it will be POD.
I wish you beaucoup sales with Cerridwen. :-))
Thanks again for being here.
Julie, as far as your e-books I’m surprised you didn’t have better sales. Not even my first e-book–Wolf Island, a romantic suspense and Eppie Finalist ever broke $100 bucks in sales. In fact I’ve probably made about $120 tp $130 bucks total for all my e-books if that. I haven’t added them up in a while.
And my non-fiction collaborative print book has made zip.
Cher
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Thank you, Stacia, for all this great information. And thanks, Cher, for sharing your personal experiences.
I’ve got a question: Do you think the length of the story influences sales in epublishing? For example, do novellas sell better than longer books?
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Very true, Cher. EC’s sales are pretty much good across the board.
They have their own printing press now, EC does. So I guess it depends on whether the bookstores have ordered copies or if it’s just orders through the website.
I’m really surprised at that, too, Julie. I would have expected a lot more.
Robin, I can’t really speak from experience because my first novella with EC comes out next month. But as far as I know, longer sells better. I’ve heard that stuff like the themed Quickies, while they sell respectably, don’t make the numbers the novels do (also because they’re cheaper, they just don’t make as much $ for the author all around.)
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This is so much great information, thanks!!
As for the reason for buying e-books. I’m not embarrased to go into the book store and buy erotica, but the covers do tend to pose a problem for me with 2 boys – who have lots of friends in and out or when I’m hanging out with them at the skate park. I can download them on my e-reader and nobody knows what I’m reading and I’m not brownpaper-wrapping the covers!
Thanks again for being here and for posting the links to check. I’m currently finishing my first novella and, of course, would love to get in with Ellora’s Cave but it’s nice to have all this information available to check out the others.
Another great resource is the published authors within my RWA online chapters. It’s very easy to see who is published with who, and everyone is so willing to share info about their experiences with those publishers that it’s easy to stay informed. But having those links is fantastic!!
Hope everyone has a great weekend!
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Well, remember…I get a much lower royalty rate! Same as a print book. So instead of earning 40-50% royalty, I’m getting 8%. That’s a big difference. Although…I need to check this. I’m not entirely sure about that. I know that Dirty Little Lies sold better than Dirty Little Secrets…but it was just a couple of hundred books, all told.
I’ve yet to receive any statements on my Harlequin books now that they are available as ebooks. I’ll be very interested in seeing how they sell.
Robin, great question.
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I meant to add…that as pathetic as my numbers were on Dirty Little Secrets back in 2005, it was a bestseller at Fictionwise for a couple of weeks. Makes you wonder.
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Thanks Jodie! I hadn’t thought of the RWA groups, true, I guess because you have to be an RWA member to participate. :) Good luck with your novella!
Lol Julie, true. I’d forgotten about the royalty rate for ebooks from HQ or the NY houses. And Fictionwise takes another bite, too. I know with my ebooks that sold on FW, I had to sell 150 copies or so to get $25 (of course it’s been some time since I’ve checked those numbers, so I could be off on that. But it was a substantial number of sales to get a lot less money, I recall.)
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Thanks, Stacia. And good luck with your novella, Jodi! I also get a ton of good information from my RWA chapter. I’d be lost without them!
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I am not a writer, but the info is great.
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Thanks, Robin and Estella! Glad you enjoyed it.
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Stacia, I’m not a writer by any means, but what a treasure trove of information!! Thanks for taking the time to share it! And congrats on your successes! Woohoo!
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Thank you Fedora!